tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post1971081145326830532..comments2024-03-22T23:59:37.332-07:00Comments on Les Edgerton on Writing: Student Lesson on the Inciting IncidentLes Edgertonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-58677066728703918442010-07-23T17:07:50.733-07:002010-07-23T17:07:50.733-07:00Les - I'm pretty sure that one's in our sy...Les - I'm pretty sure that one's in our system already but I'll check and make sure no shabbies need replacing. ;-) Can't wait to read them both.madlibjenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17640132631470039871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-71105175221434114722010-07-23T13:57:19.468-07:002010-07-23T13:57:19.468-07:00Madlibjen... now I think I love you! Thank you so ...Madlibjen... now I think I love you! Thank you so very much for ordering copies of Hooked! You rock!<br /><br />Are you familiar with Finding Your Voice... :)<br /><br />Brad, if you've gotten positive feedback, don't give up! Way too soon!Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-12173149979644570772010-07-23T12:59:16.671-07:002010-07-23T12:59:16.671-07:00Consider it a jack and water then. I also just ord...Consider it a jack and water then. I also just ordered some copies of Hooked for the library system I work for. (Sometimes that day job as librarian comes in real handy.)madlibjenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17640132631470039871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-63946504747115015302010-07-22T08:11:18.632-07:002010-07-22T08:11:18.632-07:00Thanks for the article. I've been told by a f...Thanks for the article. I've been told by a few agents that I have the voice and that they wanted to take me on but felt my novel needed more structural work like you discussed here.<br /><br />I'd pretty well decided to give up writing, even though the book's tested well. I may take your wonderful tip here and do another rewrite. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-4715819816504353432010-07-22T06:58:34.591-07:002010-07-22T06:58:34.591-07:00Thanks, Eeleen, Donna and Madlibjen, for the nice ...Thanks, Eeleen, Donna and Madlibjen, for the nice feedback. Madlibjen... if you could buy me a beer, I'd sure as heck drink it! (Prefer a Jack and water...)<br /><br />Many times the "fix" for our story is just like you described--that little "click" of understanding and then a sentence or two and voila!<br /><br />Let us know when your book come out so we can buy a copy.<br /><br />BTW, most of the stuff here is in my book, Hooked. I'm also trying to sell a new writer's how-to using film examples to inform fiction techniques. Calling it, "A Fiction Writer's Workshop at the Bijou."Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-64333565963198928542010-07-21T11:41:20.185-07:002010-07-21T11:41:20.185-07:00Les, I think I love you. I've been so plagued ...Les, I think I love you. I've been so plagued by this whole "inciting incident" business as it pertains to my current project (YA novel), that I'd stopped working. After trawling the Internet, looking for what, exactly, an II is and what, exactly, an II must do, I finally stumbled upon your blog. Eureka! With your excellent definition and examples, I have seen the light. And with just one small tweak, everything I've been struggling with plot-wise falls right into place, with a beautiful shining path straight to the end. Thank you! I'd buy you a beer if I could.madlibjenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17640132631470039871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-84099432348032988102010-06-22T19:21:19.405-07:002010-06-22T19:21:19.405-07:00Wow Les; thanks for the writing lesson. It's ...Wow Les; thanks for the writing lesson. It's great that you give specific examples. Not all teachers take the time to explain in this much indepth. <br /><br />I took an online writing course, and aside from the posted lectures, the instructor didn't interact with the students much. It got a bit tiring to always see "evocative dialogue" or "evocative description" in the comments on my submissions. I'm not even sure evocative was meant as a compliment.<br /><br />I've never thought of an opening scene in quite that way. We hear about having a "hook", but that term always seemed gimmicky to me. Now I'm wondering if that may be one of the problems in getting an agent - no inciting incident that draws the readers attention. Hmm.<br /><br />I'll have to take another - and another, etc - look at my first page. See it with your instruction in mind.<br /><br /><br />.......dholedolorahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08715849844092553699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-28486641177547611222010-06-22T12:59:30.733-07:002010-06-22T12:59:30.733-07:00I'm going to watch 'Thelma and Louise'...I'm going to watch 'Thelma and Louise' again now because I love seeing a familiar film with a new perspective. thanks Les!Eeleen Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15221723342556515161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-43659482803187256592010-06-21T14:06:22.666-07:002010-06-21T14:06:22.666-07:00Oops. I made a mistake in my last reply to Sex. In...Oops. I made a mistake in my last reply to Sex. In the sentence that reads: <br /><br />If she hadn't experienced that kind of sex with Darryl,she would have remained a child.<br /><br />It should have read: "sex with JT.<br /><br />I also think I called the Brad Pitt character JR, but you guys know who I meant, I hope!<br /><br />Sorry!Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-64896193412147527702010-06-21T14:02:35.564-07:002010-06-21T14:02:35.564-07:00Hi Sex Scenes,
I hesitate to comment on your story...Hi Sex Scenes,<br />I hesitate to comment on your story since I haven't read it... and you haven't asked(!)--hope you don't think I'm presumptuous--but thought I might be able to shine a little light through the cracks. If I've overreached, just let me know and accept my apology, okay?<br /><br />Oh--first, the teenaged boy market is the single biggest demographic for movies... and the single worst for fiction. Boys go to movies (as a group) but don't read (as a group).<br /><br />Back to your book SCAR. I would try to convince you that you need to have one inciting incident per book. You mention that she has several big problems and that's fine. So does Thelma in T&L and she should. But, each one emanates from the inciting incident. From that, she goes to the roadhouse where she meets the guy who tries to rape her (big problem) to being on the run, meeting JR (big problem as he robs them), which leads to... and on and on... If a problem unrelated to her quest (surface one--escape the law; story-worthy one--escape male domination) appeared out of the blue and wasn't related to her efforts to resolve the problem, that would probably make it an episodic story (this happens (to the protagonist) then this, then ... and so on. No market for episodic novels--there's no focused quest for the protagonist or a goal. I suspect that isn't what you're describing at all. Her problem has to be the spine of the novel and anything that doesn't adhere to the spine should go. Remember that the inciting incident should usually be a small, dramatic moment that launches her journey. And bigger and bigger problems should keep happening. That "get your character up a tree and throw rocks at her" thing. In Thelma's case, for instance, her situation is that she's been in a bad situation for 8 years. Which we don't learn until a third through it. But, there are all kinds of levels to her problem. For instance, her turning point and subsequent epiphany is when she and JR have sex. As Janet Burroway says, the epiphany should always be caused by something physical. As it does. For the first time in her life, Thelma has "adult" sex. A physical act that enables her to become an adult. She's had sex before, but it's that kid variety, the kind kids do in the back seat, where the boy is mostly into himself and his "accomplishment" and his own physical satisfaction. The brand of sex she's had with Darryl, even though it's been moved into the bedroom. If she hadn't experienced that kind of sex with Darryl,she would have remained a child. It's also the catalyst for the biggest scene of the story, immediately afterward where the women reverse roles and Thelma becomes the adult and Louise reverts to being the child. Eventually, they come together as equals, but at that moment is the crucial scene in the movie. <br /><br />Every single thing that happens to Thelma happens as a direct result of her inciting incident and resultant goal. Nothing that violates the spine of the story. It's clear and it's in every scene.<br /><br />Not trying to tell you what your story should be about, but thought this might help clarify what I was saying.<br /><br />Blue skies,<br />LesLes Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-33320148969021907402010-06-20T18:58:26.322-07:002010-06-20T18:58:26.322-07:00Hi Les,
I miss you. I really enjoyed your most r...Hi Les, <br /><br />I miss you. I really enjoyed your most recent piece on inciting an incident. I love reading your posts. The breakdown is helpful as I write. Talk to you soon.Sarah Faurotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09155772055522276149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-35894042456700788692010-06-19T14:28:30.545-07:002010-06-19T14:28:30.545-07:00Teenaged boy market. Interesting.
I've had a ...Teenaged boy market. Interesting.<br /><br />I've had a tough time nailing down the inciting incident into one coherent chapter in SCAR. There are several characters, but probably the foremost one is the actual Silver Scar, which the antagonist has, and which she uses as an excuse (she lies) to go to war. But the chapter is filled with a few other connected vignettes that add up to big problems for our hero. Just one incident didn't feel complete to me. I'm getting anxious to see how it'll be received, structure-wise.ssashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15527483283426518167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-41625558023336714872010-06-18T12:40:50.297-07:002010-06-18T12:40:50.297-07:00Thanks, Shannon and Tiffany--appreciate it. Tiffan...Thanks, Shannon and Tiffany--appreciate it. Tiffany, I haven't seen any movie that lends itself to fiction writing techniques better than T&L. Keep looking and many have elements that do, but none so far that every single line in the script that do. IMO, it's an absolutely brilliant script. Entertainment-wise? There are lots more entertaining, but as far as a teaching model, none.<br /><br />Most are aimed at the teenaged boy market. That's the number one demographic, in terms of market. They're the biggest identifiable group that goes to a movie more than once. So... movies are made for that market more than any other. A studio will make 50 movies for that market and then one or two for the awards market (Oscars, etc.) to show that they're "arty" or "literary." But, quite a few don't lend themselves to being good models for writing quality fiction, alas.Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-51484335506640546442010-06-18T12:12:36.029-07:002010-06-18T12:12:36.029-07:00You know...if I was Khoury(sp?) I'd be really,...You know...if I was Khoury(sp?) I'd be really, really happy that you keep mentioning the Thelma&Louise script. Seriously, I wonder how many people have watched it because you recommended it. I know I was never interested until you told us about it in class. <br /><br />Are there any other movies that do this so well? I keep trying to see for myself, but I don't seem to have as keen an eye for it as you do.Tiffanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17111064354616483882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-53960340407035497692010-06-17T21:58:40.908-07:002010-06-17T21:58:40.908-07:00Les, you are a great teacher. I still think I nee...Les, you are a great teacher. I still think I need to take one of your classes at some point. Hopefully I can get settled into our new house soon and slow down a bit before school starts again, so I can squeeze in some time for a class. You are awesome!! :-)Shannon O'Donnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17299313309059235876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-17808677267050795102010-06-17T15:09:43.996-07:002010-06-17T15:09:43.996-07:00Thanks, folks! I try to be. Don't always succe...Thanks, folks! I try to be. Don't always succeed, but it's not from lack of effort.<br /><br />I appreciate your comments a lot!Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-61042845690559921682010-06-17T13:32:18.500-07:002010-06-17T13:32:18.500-07:00You're a thorough, helpful teacher.You're a thorough, helpful teacher.Theresa Milsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03477761307315565259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-19401462387477847812010-06-17T10:48:47.353-07:002010-06-17T10:48:47.353-07:00I love your breakdown! So very helpful.
Thank yo...I love your breakdown! So very helpful. <br /><br />Thank you!Hannahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16915603693944523761noreply@blogger.com