tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post8309945607786688759..comments2024-03-22T23:59:37.332-07:00Comments on Les Edgerton on Writing: MORONIC PLOT TWISTS AND INCORRECT FACTS IN BOOKS AND MOVIESLes Edgertonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-54582797974738910492021-10-19T05:52:48.122-07:002021-10-19T05:52:48.122-07:00This is also a very good post that I enjoy reading...This is also a very good post that I enjoy reading. It is an article that discusses <a href="https://spacebarclicker.jimdosite.com" rel="nofollow">spacebar clicker</a>. You can use this to do an online and free spacebar speed test by tapping on the spacebar button on your keyboard. There are websites that offer a calculator that calculates the tapping speed of the spacebar over time.<br />Kristina Dunnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00799894189629776395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-37682814588525805782010-05-14T06:51:17.671-07:002010-05-14T06:51:17.671-07:00Hi Yanqui Tourist--good guess, but it wasn't C...Hi Yanqui Tourist--good guess, but it wasn't Clancy. If you email me privately, I'll tell you who it was and what book (butchedgerton@comcast.net).Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-7448922600562262642010-05-13T19:35:10.436-07:002010-05-13T19:35:10.436-07:00Had to have been Tom Clancy. Mr. "I'm a ...Had to have been Tom Clancy. Mr. "I'm a Cool Commando" himself who actualy was just a extremely well-read librarian until deciding to put pen to paper. Never did military service either so he certainly wouldn't know. But don't worry, your secret is safe with me!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-3803301681616079562010-04-30T15:31:17.604-07:002010-04-30T15:31:17.604-07:00Les, I'm going to question your statements on ...Les, I'm going to question your statements on handwriting. <br /><br />You stated: "Later on, he compounded the error by having the same character, looking again at the handwriting sample, and saying it “looked like an older man” had written it because it looked “waverly.” Again, not possible to tell a person’s age by their handwriting."<br /><br />I'm not quite sure about this. I know that I can tell the difference between a six-year-old's handwriting and a thirty-year-old's handwriting because the thirty-year-old's handwriting is usually going to be more polished because they have more practice, more experience with it. My three-year-old daughter's handwriting is nearly nonexistent--because, well, she's not practiced.<br /><br />My grandmother's handwriting is so different from mine, whether due to practice or simply how she was taught. I have this niggling thought that the typical handwriting has changed over the years--and Wikipedia states as much: "After the 1960s, it was argued that the teaching of cursive writing was more difficult than it needed to be. Forms of simply slanted characters, termed italic, were considered by some to be easier and traditional cursive unnecessary. Because of this, a number of various new forms of cursive appeared in the late twentieth century..." (the Wikipedia article on "Cursive")<br /><br />Now, does this mean that a layman would have knowledge like this? Well, maybe--depends on his background. Could he have noticed the differences in his handwriting and his grandmother's? Sure. Does that mean by looking at a handwriting sample he could tell the exact age? Probably not, but he might be able to say that it was an older person.<br /><br />One other thing--the adjective "waverly" sounds like a really bad description of handwriting from an elderly person, but what if that old man has Parkinson's? Or just jittery hands? I think sometimes you can get a general feeling as to age but how smooth (or not smooth) the handwriting is. <br /><br />I can't say it's impossible to tell a general age of the person writing for a layman. BUT, more importantly is how it is used in the story. And I think it sounds like it was used in a way that came across extremely fake to you. That's more important than anything else. :)Kari Wolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07568153229230329211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-47282792092241379022010-04-15T19:40:58.088-07:002010-04-15T19:40:58.088-07:00Les--the sloppy author/short-staffed proofreaders ...Les--the sloppy author/short-staffed proofreaders comment was from me but somehow got attributed to Elizabeth. Not guilty--I swear. But sorry anyhow.<br />CarlCarl Brushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137269171807075889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-8254521646300093232010-04-15T19:36:18.265-07:002010-04-15T19:36:18.265-07:00Les, re your comment about sloppy authors. I belie...Les, re your comment about sloppy authors. I believe cutbacks in the publishing business have contributed to the problem. As in so many other industries, fewer people (in this case, copy readers) trying to do the same load of work means more errors.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03365336477575303947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-36818162575227040892010-04-14T11:05:57.352-07:002010-04-14T11:05:57.352-07:00Just going through newspapers I'd saved for ar...Just going through newspapers I'd saved for articles to file, and saw this headline on the front page of the sports section in the Ft. Wayne Journal-Gazette. It was the big headline, above the fold:<br /><br />"Readers give us they're Top 26 area athletes."<br /><br />This is a fairly common kind of error in this rag...Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-60082575629400378962010-04-14T07:18:16.011-07:002010-04-14T07:18:16.011-07:00To expand on this subject a bit, I suspect the rea...To expand on this subject a bit, I suspect the reason we're seeing more and more of these errors is that we've got a generation of writers who've been raised on television and films, and who've accepted the "facts" they've learned via those medias. Not realizing that in both TV and movies, there is far more sloppy research employed than in print. For instance, they keep seeing these TV cop series where cordite is smelled by the detective, so when they write their book the same thing happens. Their detective smells cordite. I've been teaching at universities for a long time, and when I was a student and when I began teaching, students would research bona fide sources. Today, they use... the Internet. And TV and movies. It's no wonder books have far more errors in them these days! The Internet! The single worst source of true information ever invented. <br /><br />And, many of my current students aren't even half smart about it. They just Google a subject and the first article that pops up is the one they use. Makes it easy for us to figure out what they did. If they'd only go a page or two further into their Google searches, they'd get away with more, but that, I think, looks too much like that dreaded concept called "work." <br /><br />A writer who depends on the Internet or TV or movies for his "research" isn't one I want to read...Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-14603004571990914362010-04-14T07:05:26.426-07:002010-04-14T07:05:26.426-07:00Carl, I think you answered your own question. You ...Carl, I think you answered your own question. You said it was part of a "fairly successful series." A brand name. Remember, brand name authors can (and do) get away with things other writers can't. Many times, we have to be "better." While this writer may get away with something like this once or twice, eventually enough people will begin noticing the errors and quit buying... I hope so, anyway...Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-89812014222433536032010-04-14T07:04:54.417-07:002010-04-14T07:04:54.417-07:00Laura, you're a very forgiving reader and ther...Laura, you're a very forgiving reader and there are many who feel as you do, but I just can't keep reading someone who makes serious factual errors in their books or films. I wouldn't count blogs in this discussion at all--they're just not in the mix at all--blogs, if anything, are like self-published or vanity press books. So, I wouldn't use those in comparison, personally.<br /><br />But, if an Indian boy says, "They'll write songs..." I can't believe the rest of it. It's the same as if he said, "They'll send us to the moon in a rocket ship." Rocket ships didn't exist then nor did writing as a concept among aboriginals. And, the screenwriter had it right! They spent $40-60 million to make this movie and couldn't spare five hundred bucks to hire a fact-checker? Or, if a character has three easily-checked fallacies in a book, as did my friend with his two handwriting errors and the "hair grows after death" presented as "facts" then I simply can't believe anything else. The main thing we strive to do as writers is to write so that the reader "suspends his/her disbelief" and once we see a major error, that disbelief is upon us as readers in full force. And, that the author himself, his agent, and then at least one editor let all of these through is just, I think, an indictment of how our standards have slipped.<br /><br />Over at Lee Lofland's blog, The Graveyard Shift, there are countless articles about the same thing. One egregious error that keeps cropping up in the material he reviews is detectives "smelling cordite." Well, since cordite hasn't been manufactured or used since WWII, that would be kind of difficult to smell. How on earth is a reader (or, viewer in this case, as he's reviewing TV series) supposed to buy that this character is believable? And, it's not like this information is hard to find. Stuff like that just shouts out "laziness" and actually, ignorance about the subject the author has chosen to employ. <br /><br />I do appreciate your point of view, and do agree that sometimes, even with the best of efforts and intentions, mistakes creep into manuscripts. An occasional one wouldn't keep me from reading that writer, witness my friend who had a military guy say, "Over and out." I'll still keep reading him because he knew better and had hired a person he trusted to also know better to vet it and it still appeared. One mistake? Sure, no problem. Three very big mistakes, easily avoided with a little work? Nope.<br /><br />As I'm done with a newspaper in which every single edition has multiple errors while their sister publication has none. Not going to think of the first paper as anything much more than... stupid... They earned it...<br /><br />I appreciate your input very much. If everyone agreed, we'd have a very boring society, wouldn't we!Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-74486849960934885072010-04-13T18:09:59.594-07:002010-04-13T18:09:59.594-07:00When I went to Disney World, I wanted to buy a zeb...When I went to Disney World, I wanted to buy a zebra stuffed animal from Animal Kingdom. The one I wanted neighed like a horse when squeezed. Zebras do NOT neigh like horses or bray like donkeys! I was really annoyed with Disney. I still bought a zebra stuffed animal, but it was not one that made noise. <br /><br />I want a gripping plot and engaging characters in books and movies. I'm not picky other than that. If I stopped reading books or watching movies because of grammar and factual errors, then I'd never read or watch anything! <br /><br />I hate when I see an error on my own blog post after it's published! But I sure hope no one judges my blog because I made a word possessive that shouldn't have been. I certainly don't judge anyone else's blogs for those simple errors!<br /><br />Writers and producers are only human. At some point errors are inevitable no matter how meticulous you are.Laura S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13934230198562773803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-2710385290916690942010-04-13T11:55:07.739-07:002010-04-13T11:55:07.739-07:00Obvious errors do turn me off. On a Friends episo...Obvious errors do turn me off. On a Friends episode (probably 15 years ago) they quoted lines from Tennyson, but they credited Keats. Oh, how that upset me. In another 15 years, maybe I'll be able to forgive them! Maybe... :-)Shannon O'Donnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17299313309059235876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-71474386339664930762010-04-13T05:13:56.418-07:002010-04-13T05:13:56.418-07:00Great post, Les. I get so annoyed by glaring error...Great post, Les. I get so annoyed by glaring errors.<br /><br />I wrote something in my wip, sat back and thought about it. I researched the item I had written in, and found it was invented three years after the era I am writing. Lesson learned. :)Glynis Peters https://www.blogger.com/profile/01175378917872403609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-12953436381640239282010-04-12T20:22:15.859-07:002010-04-12T20:22:15.859-07:00Was listening to a book on tape recently. A junk b...Was listening to a book on tape recently. A junk book for passing the time in the car. It was set in a museum. A diamond collection was stolen. People were in the streets over the theft. Not because people would ever do that, but to artificially increase the level of suspense over the crisis to the museum. New director had to figure out a spin, etc. That's how the book began. I don't know or care how it ended, but apparently it's one of a fairly successful series.<br />You mention that an error like this can kill a book's publication chances. I wonder why it didn't kill this one's chances. And the hundreds like it which do make it into print.Carl Brushhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09137269171807075889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-37117694750295684092010-04-12T12:37:28.073-07:002010-04-12T12:37:28.073-07:00Cool! It amazes me how low newspapers have gone in...Cool! It amazes me how low newspapers have gone in quality. I started out as a newspaper reporter in the "toy department" (sports) and any of us would have been fired on the spot for stuff I see every day in most papers.<br /><br />We truly are, in many ways, amidst the "dumbing of America."Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-9757628996265667512010-04-12T12:31:32.543-07:002010-04-12T12:31:32.543-07:00I expect them to do their homework, especially if ...I expect them to do their homework, especially if they're making something historical-based. I am most bothered by typos and grammatical errors.<br /><br />We call our local newspaper "The Gazidiot" because of its never-ending list of inaccuracies: both in language and content!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com