tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post8865486745221189679..comments2024-03-22T23:59:37.332-07:00Comments on Les Edgerton on Writing: A LOOK AT A STUDENT'S WORK W/COMMENTSLes Edgertonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-48139963440994507812010-11-14T03:52:41.455-08:002010-11-14T03:52:41.455-08:00That answers all my questions perfectly, Les! Than...That answers all my questions perfectly, Les! Thanks.Sally Clementshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00126442284080778860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-80053035209062841832010-11-12T15:50:11.660-08:002010-11-12T15:50:11.660-08:00Hi there - I'm just dropping by to thank you f...Hi there - I'm just dropping by to thank you for stopping by my blog and leaving that great recommendation for "Your Life As Story." I also wanted to let you know that I forwarded your offer to sign "Hooked" on to Jeannette, and I will also forward it to Jennifer after her book arrives. She doesn't know that's the one I ordered yet, so I'm waiting to surprise her. Thanks so much for offering to sign them, Les!Susan Fieldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02433408456603462774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-11366555061433626422010-11-09T08:00:59.166-08:002010-11-09T08:00:59.166-08:00Hi Sally! Great questions. About the outline--this...Hi Sally! Great questions. About the outline--this is a specialized form I require that makes the writer think through their story. This is something many writers don't do--often, what they begin with is only a vague vision, a version of what Blake Snyder terms "The Smell of the Rain on the Road at Dawn." (Have a post in the archives on that.) In other words, they haven't really thought out their story at all. This requires them to. It's also not meant to make sense necessarily to anyone but the author--it's her roadmap and only contains the results of the major turns in the novel--how the writer gets there is up to her. If a new path presents itself to the writer, I advise them to simply create a new outline and they're back on track. In answer to your question, yes, I do ask them to figure out what their story-worthy problem is at the beginning, but that's not necessarily reflected in their outline. However, usually their resolution will do just that. If they don't know what the "real" problem is that the surface problem reflects and is symptomatic of, it's going to be hard to create a story that leads to that resolution. So, yes, they're asked to know what that is, but it isn't required necessarily in their outline, except as reflected in their resolution. Make sense? Remember, the outline is only for their benefit. And, mine... For instance, if they indicate an inciting incident in their outline and begin elsewhere, I instantly know they've begun wrong. (Usually with backstory or setup or that inane "introducing the character so the reader 'understands' them--a revelation that they don't trust the reader's intelligence... blech...).<br /><br />As for classes, actually, yes. I teach a class online for Writer's Digest on story beginnings and the next one, I think, begins on Dec. 30. Don't have the url, but if you go to WD's website and check on the WOW classes you'll find it. I think I have a link on this site. I'd LOVE to see you and others from here in it! But, beware, it's been called by survivors, "Bobby Knight Bootcamp for Writers..."<br /><br />Thanks for great questions! Hope they were answered.Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-55985895681856112862010-11-09T01:37:58.566-08:002010-11-09T01:37:58.566-08:00Excellent post, Les. Your comments and Brenda'...Excellent post, Les. Your comments and Brenda's comments provide a great road map to Ben to show exactly where he needs to put in the work, and I imagine that he's been able to do a lot with this sort of feedback. Just a question, at the beginning you detail the story's inciting incident, development and resolution. The resolution shows the resolution of the story-worthy problem, and the development shows the surface problems that Ben's character goes through. When you're developing the road map with the student, do they also identify right at the beginning the story-worthy problem, the thing the character is struggling with internally that is part of them rather than part of the surface problem that needs to change to reach their resolution?<br />I'd like to see what your student identified as his character's story worthy problem.<br />Also, I'd love to know if you're doing online courses open to all us writers out here! I'm re-reading hooked at the moment. I read through a point just before going to sleep and let it percolate while I sleep. I've said it before, but its a great book!Sally Clementshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00126442284080778860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-46856795681613840772010-11-05T03:35:35.463-07:002010-11-05T03:35:35.463-07:00Thanks Tiffany and Rebecca. Tiffany, these folks a...Thanks Tiffany and Rebecca. Tiffany, these folks are in a writer's certificate program at Phoenix College (not that Phoenix University on billboards and the internet, but the "real" school; Phoenix College, an excellent college--I always feel I have to explain that so people don't confuse them with that other "school") and they are very serious writers. It's a very giving community of writers who all have thick skins, egos left at the door, who all want only to become better writers. I could have used any other of the students' comments--they are all this sharp. No hand-holding in this class! They're all big boys and girls. Imagine a class made up of folks like yourself, Tiffany--it's like that. Heaven. And, Rebecca, you're exactly right. The folks who really aren't going to become writers realize it quickly and do the right thing. Exit left... Not everyone can or should be a writer--it's not something one is entitled to--and they're then able to get on with their lives in something they are good at or have a chance to be good at.Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-66826290183134960972010-11-04T20:43:30.863-07:002010-11-04T20:43:30.863-07:00Wow, Les. Your class sounds like an excellent expe...Wow, Les. Your class sounds like an excellent experience for writers and I wish I could be part of it. I appreciate your (and your students) willingness to share these comments and this story.<br /><br />There is an element of depth to your comments, and Brenda's, that really get into the meat of what is missing in this scene. It's the kind of feedback that has incredible value during the writing process but I can see why some of the students don't stick it out. I imagine it would be easy to get discouraged. Thankfully, that is part of the "weeding out" process that makes the writers who stick to it the ones worth reading.<br /><br />Thanks again, Les. I'm looking forward to reading more.Rebecca Laffar-Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18085299881243825229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-24276653903145396212010-11-02T11:10:10.705-07:002010-11-02T11:10:10.705-07:00Man, I wish I was still in your class. You're ...Man, I wish I was still in your class. You're doing things differently now. I miss the workshop setting and being around like minded people. And it looks here like you have people who actually care about helping others and know how to give helpful comments.T.M. Averyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10776344215032469226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-47221470641683381862010-11-01T19:20:12.689-07:002010-11-01T19:20:12.689-07:00Your blog rocks, Susan! Folks, if you haven't ...Your blog rocks, Susan! Folks, if you haven't visited Susan's blog, do yourself a favor and get on over there. It's on my website favorites here.Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-31007127977644167872010-11-01T16:54:54.154-07:002010-11-01T16:54:54.154-07:00Thanks so much for stopping by my blog! I've b...Thanks so much for stopping by my blog! I've been following yours for a while, ever since I discovered Hooked, which I love (as you know, since you read my post). And I'll be sure to check out the other books you mentioned!<br /><br />Thanks for sharing this critique. You and the other student both made excellent points. As I said in my blog post, I learn best by example, and I found the Easy Prey snippet very helpful. And wow, Easy Prey has a great opening line!Susan Fieldshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02433408456603462774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-7483614816872794202010-10-31T07:56:14.402-07:002010-10-31T07:56:14.402-07:00Thanks, Alice. Hope it helped! The class isn't...Thanks, Alice. Hope it helped! The class isn't in Indy--it's a class I teach online for Phoenix College (Not that diploma mill, Phoenix University, but the "real" school!). They're part of a writing program the school offers and a terrific bunch of students. Since last semester, they also have a dinner together (which I can't go to, being in Indiana) and I would guess I get roasted pretty good! Seriously, I can't say enough about these folks--they're the hardest-working students I've ever been privileged to teach. I'll pass on your thanks.Les Edgertonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17997858985904932554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-62747108095884276902010-10-31T06:55:18.299-07:002010-10-31T06:55:18.299-07:00I should also thank your students for allowing you...I should also thank your students for allowing you to post this for everyone to see. Thanks.Alicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14640032121885343233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5918800617954487311.post-81894732272888759622010-10-31T06:16:38.420-07:002010-10-31T06:16:38.420-07:00Thanks for sharing this. This is exactly my proble...Thanks for sharing this. This is exactly my problem. I can't put the character's feelings into words. It's not really description (which I hate) it's feelings. I hope I can get this right as I try and reach those 50,000 words for NANO. <br /><br />I suppose your classes are in Indy somewhere. My kids are there but I'm too far away.<br /><br />Thanks for the help online though. You are generous.Alicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14640032121885343233noreply@blogger.com